The Last Outpost

General Discussion => Café Pierce Bar and Grill => Topic started by: Grizz on September 24, 2017, 02:47:37 PM

Title: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on September 24, 2017, 02:47:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PMCGHwB.jpg)

"We're discovering a new way to fly!"

What's it about?

Season One (the first of many, any Trek fan would hope) of Star Trek: Discovery, set roughly 10 years prior to the The Original Series, promises to follow the conflict between the United Federation of Planets and the Klingon Empire. Initially from the perspective of the Starship Shenzhou, then the titular Discovery, the story sees the Klingon T'Kuvma seeking to unite all of the Klingon houses at a time that an unrevealed act sparks open conflict between the Empire and the Federation. It is expected that this arc will reach its conclusion prior to the end of the season.

Star Trek: Discovery's lead is neither of the show's starring Captains, but rather First Office Michael Burnham. What's so special about Burnham? Well it turns out she was raised on Vulcan by Spock's father, Sarek. The details of this upbringing remain to be unleashed upon a perpetually concerned fandom.

There's also some funky mystery surrounding the Discovery itself, but we'll have to see about all that.

Also tribbles.




Who's in it?

(https://i.imgur.com/Pcvk8uM.jpg)

as Michael Burnham, our new intelligent and logical "Number One."

(https://i.imgur.com/uGpcxef.jpg)

as Philippa Georgiou, a seasoned veteran and explorer, Captain of the Shenzhou.

(https://i.imgur.com/OdFWYTA.jpg)

as Gabriel Lorca, a formidable and charismatic tactician, Captain of the Discovery. A man who hides as many secrets as his ship.

(https://i.imgur.com/JUDN714.jpg)

as Saru, the Shenzhou's Kelpien science officer, genetically able to sense incoming threats.

(https://i.imgur.com/DVy2ouF.jpg)

as Paul Stamets, a science officer aboard the Discovery, versed in astromycology.

(https://i.imgur.com/b58jAeL.jpg)

as Sylvia Tilly, a wide-eyed final-year Cadet assigned to the Discovery. Bottom of the ladder but with the biggest heart.

(https://i.imgur.com/c469vBA.jpg)

as Sarek, a Vulcan astrophysicist, the father of Spock, and the surrogate father of Michael Burnham.

(https://i.imgur.com/1ZOk8dM.jpg)

as T'Kuvma, leader of an ancient Klingon house who rules as the second coming of the messiah.

(https://i.imgur.com/zPrslNh.jpg)

as Harry Mudd. No, really.




Can I watch it?

Maybe. Hopefully. Probably - somehow. Check the banner at the top and find out. Then watch it tonight / tomorrow. Then come back here and discuss!

Should I watch it?

There's no saying whether it will be good or not. But if you're a real Star Trek fan, you probably have an open-mind and have been itching to see Trek back on the small screen. There are those out there claiming to be Star Trek fans but find Discovery off-putting because of its diverse cast. I mean, when has Star Trek ever been diverse, right? Don't be like those guys. Check it out and make your own mind up!




MEDIA

Series Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWnYtyNKPsA)

Latest Promo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxF3y58Comc)

Production Featurette (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPfeooWE4fA)

Main Theme / Title Sequence (minus credits) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU)

"This Season" Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niHg1Y_GRpE) [ Ep 1 & 2 Major Spoilers ]

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a2db011a640052893ccb07afc68f4e8b/tumblr_otawzfwd6t1vs9hwmo2_540.png)

Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Klaw on September 24, 2017, 03:02:47 PM
Watching the premiere tonight, imo - gonna be hard to beat the Orville
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on September 24, 2017, 03:07:31 PM
Quote from: Klaw on September 24, 2017, 03:02:47 PM
Watching the premiere tonight, imo - gonna be hard to beat the Orville

The Expanse, you mean ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Klaw on September 24, 2017, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: Grizz on September 24, 2017, 03:07:31 PM
Quote from: Klaw on September 24, 2017, 03:02:47 PM
Watching the premiere tonight, imo - gonna be hard to beat the Orville

The Expanse, you mean ;)

Actually - this is still on my to watch list... but no, The Orville - Critics are way too harsh on it...
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Veritas on September 24, 2017, 10:47:08 PM
Just finished episodes 1 and 2. I am extremely pleased so far. Looking forward to hearing what you all think; I might type up my thoughts longform later...
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Klaw on September 24, 2017, 11:31:40 PM
Episode 1 did not convince me to hop over the pay wall.

imo - It looks nice, the budget is huge (and it shows) - but I feel that it lacked a lot of substance.

I'm going to avoid spoilers at all cost.

In the first 20 minutes of The Orville's first episode (as a non-trek example) - Characters were introduced that were unique, and possessed a history. Elements like this made me give a crap about the characters.

In the First 60 Minutes (or so) of TNG's first episode - Characters were introduced that were somewhat unique and possessed a history. While some of these characters were VERY annoying (Shutup Wesley) they grew and developed and became more personable. I will be the first to admit that TNG Season 1 and 2 were not the best...

DS9, Voy, and TOS all failed a bit in this regard - I'll exclude ToS as an outlier and originator for Trek lore.

DS9 focused hard on the battle hardened past of Sisko, and basically only Sisko in episode 1 - They brought O'Brien (a character that was somewhat fleshed out from TNG and as such - this was how they got you to care about a character in episode 1 - without him - DS9 would have lacked HARD in this regard.) Most Characters didn't come to life until season 4 (when another TNG veteran joins...)

VOY established an interesting setting, which as a result - enticed me to care a bit, but the characters didn't come to life until probably season 2 or 3...

Ent explored Archer's past a bit - his connection to the ship - we met our first Denobulan (who doesn't like Phlox?!) and all in all, I started to care about some characters from the start.

Discovery: Who the hell are these people?! Burnham has some history revealed... but even that is limited, and not nearly enough to show her humanity (or lack thereof).

And that's about it...

So, without a sense of giving a crap about the characters (and idk if Episode 2 will make me care...) I have no desire to continue - because the setting has been seen, and heard about (Axanar anyone?!) and basically, we know the outcome...

Just some more of my in depth thoughts on it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Veritas on September 24, 2017, 11:43:20 PM
Klaw - watch episode two. Episode 1 is half the pilot. It's ridiculous that they split it; it is much, much stronger with episode 2 alongside it. Episode two adds a lot that was missing from episode one, fixes things that didn't make sense, and just generally adds a sense of connection to the show and material episode one didn't have. If this tanks on CBS because of All Access and being split in the wrong place, I'll be really disappointed in the studio :(.

Here is my spoiler-free review, copied and pasted shamelessly from my post on Reddit:

Quote
VFX: absolutely stunning, almost if not actually movie quality. Character design is great. Ship design is excellent. Space VFX are amazingly good, beautiful on their own much of the time. They clearly put a lot of time and money into this. Note, though, it is JJ Abrams' style more than anything. If you didn't like that, you won't like this. Personally, I enjoy the style, so I thought it was fantastic. I'm also digging the new Klingon designs. 10/10

The writing/characterization is solid, but not perfect. Some significant things to be worked on, but I can't go into details without spoilers. However, in my opinion if you watch both episodes 1 and 2 (and you really should watch both), there's nothing so glaring or unresolved/unfixable that it really detracted from the experience. 8.5/10

The music is good, but nothing new/unexpected. It doesn't reach michael giacchino levels, but it's well-executed. For sound effects, the same rating/statement. It's the sound suite expected from Star Trek, mixed with some modern stuff like the Expanse. 8/10

The acting is a mixed bag. Honestly, this is probably the weakest part of the episodes so far for me; issues with delivery/directing more than capability, I think, but we'll see. Again, can't be too specific without spoilers. Work is needed here. While I agree that the writing is not perfect, I think it'd come across a lot better with better directing and acting. I didn't have issues with pacing/style of direction that other people here did, but I am going to watch again soon and think about these things specifically. The directing is definitely not perfect. 7/10 for both, I'd say.

In terms of streaming experience, while All Access is dumb, and putting the show back 18 minutes online because of football, which is on TV makes absolutely zero sense, for me (streaming on a desktop computer over a decent Internet connection), the streaming worked flawlessly; it was high quality thewhole time with no interruptions or downtime whatsoever. There was no HBO-Go-first-ep-of-game-of-thrones downtime here. I strongly recommend ditching your TV or mobile apps and streaming through a browser for this platform. For me, the streaming was 10/10. For others, I hear it is much worse.

Finally, the most important part - is it Star Trek? YES. IT IS STAR TREK. IT IS ABSOLUTELY STAR TREK. It's modernized to a certain extent and it's more action-oriented than Star Trek usually is, but I think that's because it's a pilot/season-opener, which is similar to what TNG/DS9/VOY all did during all their first episodes. It is absolutely Star Trek, it hits all the right beats and I feel like it means them. 10/10 will space voyage again.

Overall, if this were just any scifi TV show, I'd call it an ~8, 8.5/10. But I love Star Trek, and I want to love this, so it gets a 9/10 for me, with hope for the future.

and here are some musings from me on Trek idealism and what to expect from a new Trek show:

Quote
Guys, we have to talk about this. I realize that everyone has specific ideals about what Star Trek is supposed to be, and that those ideals are important. I promise, I'm right there with you. The trouble is that Discovery, good or bad, is never going to be your platonic ideal of a Star Trek show, because its creators are not you. I think we need to remember a few things:

Every major Trek series since TOS has changed things, sometimes significant things, often for the better.
Every major Trek series since TOS was criticized harshly by at least some contingent of fans at first, regardless of how it ultimately turned out.
Every major Trek series has occasionally (or more than occasionally, looking at you, Voyager) suffered from bad writing, bad acting, bad directing, or all three - including in the pilot episodes.
Everyone has their list of things Star Trek is and should be. Those lists aren't necessarily equal to what Star Trek is.

I believe that at its core, Star Trek is about a theme: idealistic, optimistic science-fiction that keeps the "human" factor in mind, even when dealing with aliens. Star Trek is a show about ideals and values. Those ideals and values can be brought under discussion in a myriad of ways and under a myriad of artistic styles and visions, because at its core, Star Trek is not about whether there's lens flares or not, what the commander's name is, or how many scenes of Klingons talking about destiny and the ancestors there are. Star Trek is about vision, and vision takes time.

Personally, I really enjoyed these first two episodes. I don't think they're perfect - acting and writing need work, directing was sometimes heavy-handed - and yes, they are modern scifi designed for a modern audience (just as TNG was in its time, and ENT in its, as examples). But to me, they have the spark of what Star Trek is and should be about. They're character-driven, they're focused on the meaning behind the actions shown, and they are at the same time about big ideas and cosmic conflicts bigger than any single person - or at least, personally, I can see them getting there if they're not there 100% yet.

Even if I liked it, it can be improved, and I want it to be improved. But at the same time, even if someone didn't like it, I think they are more likely to be rewarded for giving the show time and watching it with an eye towards what works than by throwing their hands up, declaring "it's not Trek!" and storming out. You miss all the shots you don't take.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on September 25, 2017, 02:17:43 AM
I heard the opening two were to serve more like a prologue to the series if anything else. Does that sound right?

I guess what I'm really asking is whether my man Jason Isaacs was anywhere to be seen last night  :P

Never mind, don't tell me, it just dropped on Netflix - with surprise HDR. Bonus.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on September 26, 2017, 05:07:29 AM
Added the "This Season" trailer to the first post.

I pretty much agree with your review, Vertias. It is Star Trek. It's 2017's Star Trek - with real consequence straight from the offing. I would be lying if I were to say this wasn't the type of Trek I've been adhering to for the last ten years. It's optimistic - to a fault - with imperfect people trying to carry out Roddenberry's vision - but imperfect people make mistakes. It's only natural.

Looking ahead, I really look forward to meeting Lorca and the Discovery - and the rest of the main cast we haven't seen yet! We're still far from getting settled but I'm excited to see what comes next!

I don't know how it looked on All Access, but it was certainly gorgeous looking on Netflix, too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Scott Archer on September 26, 2017, 07:16:47 AM
I'm writing a longer continuity gripe :P


But a review of the episodes, I pretty much agree with what everyone else has said.
The effects were really nice and the production from a technical standpoint was fantastic on the whole (although at a rumoured cost of $8 million per episode I would be disappointed with any less.)


The acting though, I didn't think was that great and the story also seemed pretty lacking (thanks to Grizz for the character list at the start, I had virtually no idea who anyone outside of Burnham, Georgiou and Saru was. (Saru on the other hand I thought was excellent.))


If they continue to focus on Burnham I'm not sure what I'll think, I didn't like the character to be honest, but it will be interesting to see how they develop and characterise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on September 26, 2017, 11:41:12 AM
Georgiou's collection  ^-^

(https://i.imgur.com/7TN0bxa.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Vanguard on September 27, 2017, 05:46:48 PM
My review (some vague spoilers):

Monday the 25th of September was the most excruciatingly long day as I waited for my best friend, his flat mate and his girlfriend to finish up their day to day tasks so that at last, after spending the last decade catching up on all Trek there is to Trek... I could watch something new.

Annnnd, hoo-boy is it new.

Star Trek, the show commonly mocked for 'funny foreheads (as my grandma used to say) and starting the (now almost) universal trope of bizarre creatures all speaking English it back, it's back, it's sleek, it's shiny and more important than that. Everything about it is solid and universally consistent.

Did the fact that the Klingons spoke Klingon in all of their solo scenes result in frustration at times, boredom at others? Perhaps. But retrospectively I absolutely loved it. This is a Trek that's not afraid to break the franchises rules to create a deeper, richer viewing experience.

Our first taste of Michael Burnham puts her on the precipice of getting her own command; that is until shes confronted with her fears of the past. Has this been done before in Trek? Sure. Worfs parents were killed, Trips sister was killed.etc giving rise to a racial hatred that the characters confront over the series. It also gave a fascinating insight into Vulcan logic because, of course it logically makes sense to attack an aggressive species that typically doesn't negotiate first. It's fascinating to view things through the Vulcan perspective and consider that ironically, they are likely the cause of a lot of the tension in the Alpha Quadrant. Wars with the Andorians in Enterprise, the obvious disenfranchising of the Romulans and now we discover they fire on sight at Klingons. Peace in our time it would seem is not logical.

I had great fun trying to spot the individual references to previous shows, my favourite subtle one was the triangular chair in Burnhams quarters. Little touches that just show that this is the universe we know and love.

The cinematography was extremely reminiscent of the JJ films, but this pilot is designed to draw those Trek fans in. They know we'll put up with it and from what I hear (and see in the season trailer) the dutch angles and lens flares calm down quite a bit post-pilot.

All in all, even after mining the salt from the Reddit Trek sub for the past few days I still absolutely love this show already. I can't wait to explore the dynamic of Burnham post-pilot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Scott Archer on September 28, 2017, 11:50:09 AM
Quote
Everything about it is solid and universally consistent. 


Not entirely true :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on October 01, 2017, 06:04:49 PM
Cadet Tilly is going to be Discovery's MVP.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: JSpaced10 on October 03, 2017, 05:09:44 AM
I am intrigued by Gabriel Lorca. I feel like if Kirk is analogous to Roger Moore's Bond, then Lorca is Daniel Craig's Bond. He seems intent on becoming a monster in the name of protecting people, saving lives. I love that he is a resource collector and user of those resources (i.e. people)
The science-y bit might be accurate to current thinking, but boy was it hard to swallow!
Saru is fun, and it would be easy to make him one dimensional, but he's this tense performance, caught between fight and flight in his conversations, like his fear is driving him (similar to Burnham and Lorca actually, just coming at the same thing from different angles).
I thought episode 3's "plot" was a bit by the numbers, but it was there to introduce the ship and the concept of their mission.
Also Stamets: Yes, we know you don't like her. Yes she did a bad thing. You being leader of pointing out she did a bad thing just makes you a jackass.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Scott Archer on October 04, 2017, 12:27:46 PM
I kinda felt like the third episode was yet another introductory episode, hopefully next week we actually properly get into the series.
Burnham was different this week, I feel like she's learnt her lesson and come back to her Starfleet values (which came across in her conversation with Lorca.)



Epic burns from Saru too :P although I feel like he's going to make a mistake at some point later in the series which puts the Captain at risk and he's somehow going to be brought through it by Burnham, thus giving him an understanding of what she went through.


I agree with what a friend of mine said, it feels a lot more 'grown-up' in the gritty sense than previous Trek series and I think it's going to continue along a darker theme, so it will be interesting to see how that all pans out.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: JSpaced10 on October 05, 2017, 04:28:24 AM
Quote from: Scott Archer on October 04, 2017, 12:27:46 PM

Burnham was different this week, I feel like she's learnt her lesson and come back to her Starfleet values (which came across in her conversation with Lorca.)


I disagree that she's "coming back to Starfleet values". She was always upholding Starfleet and the Federation's values, by trying to stop a conflict before it started.
Starfleet's language was not acceptable to these Klingons, in the same way that the Federation doesn't generally have a "friendly" headbutt in a bar. But if a Starfleet officer walked into a Klingon bar asked for a Babysham and started chatting about his kids' little league tournament, it would go badly. If the same officer walked in, downed a bloodwine and punched the biggest warrior he could find in the face, he would end the night with a blackeye, arm in arm with the Klingons singing songs.

Unfortunately Georgiou was hand-tied by Starfleet protocol and actually kind of prejudiced that the traditional way of peace was "the best way". Had Burnham been thirty seconds faster and fired the opening shot herself, the whole situation *may* have been different. She wasn't betraying Starfleet, so much as trying to implement its principles in a roundabout way.

I don't believe (until the final phaser shot on T'Kuvma's ship) she allowed her past with the Klingons to inform her decision.

When she nerve-pinched Georgiou, Burnham knew that no matter how her plan worked out, she would face court martial and be sentenced for assaulting a senior officer. Like Lorca though, she sees further than protocols and chain of command.

I liked her attitude in episode 3, accepting the weight of 8,000 lives lost, accepting the truth when people called her mutineer. But they were two separate issues.
People blame her for the war, but erroneously link her mutiny to it, rather than her failure to kidnap T'Kuvma. I'm not 100% convinced kidnapping T'Kuvma would have helped the situation, but it might have been some leverage. Had her mutiny succeeded, she may well have been sentenced to prison, but lauded as a hero for opening diplomatic relations with the Klingons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on October 16, 2017, 03:37:33 PM
Star Trek Discovery is rad.

Fight me.

No don't, I'm a coward.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Scott Archer on October 17, 2017, 07:10:17 PM

Just watched episode 5 of Discovery and a couple of things:
1. Yay! Harry Mudd - I felt they got the chracterisation 100%
2. The list containing Pike, Decker and April was quite nice. I wasn't 100% sure where it would fit in Pike wise but according to Memory Alpha, Pike had just finished his 5 year mission so I guess it makes sense him being on the list. That being said, I 100% want to see a modern VFX take on the Constitution class which is a little closer to the original than in the abramsverse - after all, Enterprise is fighting this war too. (It was nice to see Archer there too - in fact some sources suggest hew could still be alive, that would be pretty awesome if we saw him.)
3. They resolved the moral dilema of the Tardigrade (be interesting to see where it goes from here.)

Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on October 23, 2017, 10:15:16 AM
Against the wishes of YouTube comments everywhere, CBS has renewed Discovery for Season 2!
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Shoot on October 23, 2017, 11:47:23 AM
Quote from: Grizz on October 23, 2017, 10:15:16 AM
Against the wishes of YouTube comments everywhere, CBS has renewed Discovery for Season 2!


Awesome, I actually enjoy Discovery a lot.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Martin Thompson on November 03, 2017, 06:01:20 PM
Episode 7 (this monday) was by far my favourite so far. I really liked the fact they pulled in Mudd's character to have that small link with TOS, picking one of their more (atleast by name) memorable "antagonists". The fresh take on the classic (and one of my personal favourites) kind of Sci-Fi plot was really really good. I'm always a sucker for these kind of time-loop things. Voyager did it brilliantly in Year of Hell (granted that wan't really a loop so much as a switching of timelines, but thats why it was so brilliant), but this Discovery episode took it back to the classic TNG-esque kind of basic plots but filmed it in such a way it felt new and fresh.

I'm starting to like the show better every episode, especially the more "trek" like "single plot" episodes are my favourites so far. I agree with scott that it was a nice "cameo" to have Johnathan Archer on that list there (I was actually looking out for such small reference details since I'm quite the sucker for them anyway).

The'res just 2 things that are bothering me at the moment:

1. The entire premise of the ship: the spore drive. I mean, Voyager anyone? "Hey Kathryn, you remember that verry successfull experment we ran back in the 2250's? Maybe you could use that one to get back?"

2. Where are all those weird aliens coming from? Saru? Whats his race now? And that wierd android-looking comm officer? Wasn't Data the first android to serve on a Starfleet vessel? They are playing a bit high and loose with some of the details IMHO. I'm sure there are some fans who have some kind of overly-difficult way of explaining this away. Seeing as Grizz is our ret-con queen, whats your take on this? :P

But, its nice to hear a seaosn 2 is on the way! I havnt read much about it myself (mainly since most american "news" sites which write about this hire writers with super convoluted writing styles and have websites with just too many adds) so its nice to see it here. Hopefully they get to ride it out all the way to Kithomer! (though that would mean another 40-ish seasons XD)

Also, episode 3, tribble, yay!
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on November 03, 2017, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: Martin Thompson on November 03, 2017, 06:01:20 PM
1. The entire premise of the ship: the spore drive. I mean, Voyager anyone? "Hey Kathryn, you remember that verry successfull experment we ran back in the 2250's? Maybe you could use that one to get back?"

2. Where are all those weird aliens coming from? Saru? Whats his race now? And that wierd android-looking comm officer? Wasn't Data the first android to serve on a Starfleet vessel? They are playing a bit high and loose with some of the details IMHO. I'm sure there are some fans who have some kind of overly-difficult way of explaining this away. Seeing as Grizz is our ret-con queen, whats your take on this? :P

There's not much to say about the first point as one has to assume the show is going to address why the spore drive - and indeed the Discovery as a whole - fails / isn't adopted. At the moment its use is already very dodgy. Part of the reason I like the show is that they haven't let it being a prequel (though it's really a sequel to Enterprise) stop them from introducing new things. As it should be - and this includes different species. So we haven't seen other Kelpians in Starfleet in the future - doesn't matter - we didn't hear of Betazoids in TOS yet a reference was slipped in to The Undiscovered Country to tie in to their establishment in TNG. They were there all along, honest!

The spore drive officer (Airiam) has been labelled an Augmented Human, I believe. On which front I also still like that we got to see Keyla pre-augment on the Shenzhou before she was wounded. Nice little detail. Not every injury can be cured with a wave of a glowing tool yet, it seems.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Martin Thompson on November 05, 2017, 04:52:58 AM
Quote from: Grizz on November 03, 2017, 07:15:55 PM
There's not much to say about the first point as one has to assume the show is going to address why the spore drive - and indeed the Discovery as a whole - fails / isn't adopted. At the moment its use is already very dodgy. Part of the reason I like the show is that they haven't let it being a prequel (though it's really a sequel to Enterprise) stop them from introducing new things. As it should be - and this includes different species. So we haven't seen other Kelpians in Starfleet in the future - doesn't matter - we didn't hear of Betazoids in TOS yet a reference was slipped in to The Undiscovered Country to tie in to their establishment in TNG. They were there all along, honest!

The spore drive officer (Airiam) has been labelled an Augmented Human, I believe. On which front I also still like that we got to see Keyla pre-augment on the Shenzhou before she was wounded. Nice little detail. Not every injury can be cured with a wave of a glowing tool yet, it seems.

The drive will probably encouter the same fate as the Transwarp engine of the Excelsior, it woulnt only be more then logical.

As for the aliens, the new aliens in TNG could be pretty well explained by only having joined the Federation some years after TOS, that would explain them not being present in the "old" series. I still think its wierd that there are aliens who have been in the Federation for years but we still have never ever seen, even not on DS9, a show on a large space station where hundreds of species where present at any given day.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on November 05, 2017, 05:57:48 AM
Incidentally, Doug Jones himself has also raised the question: "What happened to the Kelpiens?"

So maybe we'll just have to be patient  :P

QuoteI still think its wierd that there are aliens who have been in the Federation for years but we still have never ever seen, even not on DS9, a show on a large space station where hundreds of species where present at any given day.

Gotta differentiate between the Federation and Starfleet, I think. The Kelpien homeworld, for example, is said to be beyond Federation space, so there may well not be many knocking around - least because they're all too busy being hunted and possibly eaten. There are details on how Saru came to be an officer, but that's for novel readers... or perhaps even the next episode which I believe is Saru-centric.

There have been plenty of unidentifiable Alien extras mulling about in the background over the years. The galaxy is a big place. Either way, I think it's fair for the creators of a Star Trek show in 2017 to take some liberties, but I know there are those out there who just wanted to see what we've seen before with a fresh coat of paint or stick rigidly to a canon which has never been solid to start with.

I would perhaps be asking more questions myself if I wasn't enjoying it so much. As it is - I liked it to begin with and it's getting better every week.

Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on November 13, 2017, 05:21:32 PM
Definitely going to feel this going away until January  :'( Such a well produced piece of entertainment and quite relieved it's going to be around for a while.

I like that they make sure you're paying attention...

[spoiler]...otherwise it would be quite easy to miss something like Lorca overriding the spore jump coordinates - amid many other certain things alluded to during this episode.WE ELITE FORCE NOW.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: JSpaced10 on November 15, 2017, 05:14:32 AM
@Grizz Is THAT what he was doing? Ooh, I did wonder.
I really like the show. It's very Trek and very new at the same time and I loved the climactic bridge battle.
There's a couple of theories about Tyler, including for and against those theories, so I'm looking forward to finding out what his deal is.

[spoiler]I did NOT need to know what Klingon boobies look like. And now I do. I think I'll survive, but this is again, not a Trek I can share with my kids.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Scott Archer on December 11, 2017, 06:29:09 PM
I felt like Discovery was starting to find it's feet in the last few episodes (I need to watch them all again before January :P ) And I was a fan of the ending twist.


I think the spore drive will either lead to a tragic accident (or has already caused one) and will then be classified and hidden away, so those on Voyager and in the future wouldn't know about. Similar to what happened with the phase cloak in TNG, the captured cloak in tos or the transwarp drive on the Excelsior.


Species wise, I think new trek will always introduce new species - I mean we had the Denobulans and the Xindi in Enterprise.


I also agree with MT, that was a classic Trek story line and I felt they executed it really well.




I think season 2 was always going to happen, as season 1 was pretty much paid for by Netflix
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on January 08, 2018, 04:27:09 PM
Thank you, Jonathan Frakes, for delivering "Despite Yourself" to me.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Scott Archer on January 08, 2018, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Grizz on January 08, 2018, 04:27:09 PM
Thank you, Jonathan Frakes, for delivering "Despite Yourself" to me.


Ditto, as soon as I saw him listed as Director, I knew we were in for a good episode (and it was fantastic, if not the best yet)
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Martin Thompson on February 03, 2018, 03:24:04 PM
Quote from: Grizz on November 13, 2017, 05:21:32 PM
...otherwise it would be quite easy to miss something like Lorca overriding the spore jump coordinates

Holy shit Grizz you where right on the money with that one. I didn't notice it but for some reason i kept this post in the back of my mind the entire episode and when they actually mentioned it i was like "but yeah we knew that already right?... oh wait, I think that was Grizz..." :P
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on February 04, 2018, 07:11:50 AM
They haven't cheaped out on any of the twists - even if I would have preferred one of them not to be so. Considering what happened at the start of production, I think the writers deserve a lot of credit for thinking this stuff through and giving the audience enough respect to be capable of piecing it together. It allows me to have enough faith in them to believe them when they say this is all going to be consolidated in to the Federation we come to know by TOS.

It's such a beautiful show to watch, too. The fight scenes have been surprisingly great - even in keeping those classic Star Trek punches in there. The visuals are amazing. The whole sequence of the throne room fight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFKxoQMMruo) through to Discovery's warp-then-spore-jump (https://i.imgur.com/Tvj20pO.gifv) was one big mass of awesome.

It has been the most talked about and most accessed on-demand show in the US for pretty much the entire run and I hope it keeps it up because it could really, really go places... and it has been VERY self aware that many Star Trek hardcore fans may have been put off. It was really hammered home in the latest episode - right down to the title. "What's Past is Prologue" indeed.

Once Fuller's vision is realised and the war ends - it can really spread its wings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ibOzlsQzHo) - and hopefully give Airiam, Owosekun, Detmer and Rhys some screen time. But man, what a first season. I was optimistic beforehand, but it blew my expectations away. I'm glad they didn't play it safe because I think it would have been the wrong call. Genuinely surprised that of all the "hey let's do TNG again" pitches that CBS must have recieved over the years, this is what it came back to TV with.

Let The Orville fill that void and let Discovery do it's own thing.

[spoiler]Seeing Saru prepare for Command over the course of the season has been a glorious thing...[/spoiler]
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on February 05, 2018, 03:22:28 PM
....and another great episode for completely different reasons, this week. It was all kinds of Star Trek. One hell of a proposal for a finale we have in store.

The road to Season 2 will be a long one (getting from here to there).
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on February 13, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
Best addition to the Star Trek universe, right here. (https://i.imgur.com/Co7BKRI.mp4)
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: criminula on February 13, 2018, 11:52:56 AM
Quote from: Grizz on February 13, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
Best addition to the Star Trek universe, right here. (https://i.imgur.com/Co7BKRI.mp4)

No arguments here.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on January 25, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
(https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/1200x680/public/2019/01/pike_star_trek_discovery_anson_mount.jpg)

This guy.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on February 09, 2019, 05:32:16 AM
This show is starting to fire on all cylinders.
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Scott Archer on February 09, 2019, 03:13:51 PM
Truth.
That episode had TOS vibes, TNG vibes, Voyager vibes and best of all - Discovery vibes.

It was awesome!



So theories - who or what is the red angel? I'm still betting on Iconian despite what Dendo and Radio said - it's like they stole them straight from STO and added wings. Also from STO - ever noticed the similarities between Kelpiens and the Deferi? They look vaguely similar and both believe in 'the balance.'
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on February 16, 2019, 10:32:55 AM
Another banger. This show is so cool and really does have a mix of all the primary elements of each previous series - science/exploration/religion/politics - wrapped in a modern formula which works. This season Anson Mount in particular is killing it - thought I would miss Jason Isaacs, but what a replacement to have.

Next week's episode looks delightful, too.

Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: Grizz on March 11, 2019, 03:36:53 AM
Just getting better and better...
Title: Re: [Spoilers] Star Trek: Discovery - Discussion, Speculation and Tribbles
Post by: criminula on March 11, 2019, 07:49:20 PM
I'm feeling good about the way the show is developing. Still can't remember half of the bridge crew's names offhand, but I'm getting a bit more of an ensemble feel than the first season and I hope they keep building on that.