Computer Hardware and Electronics

[Kurt Fraser]

Kurt, he has no way to know that if it won't boot.

A stock system from 2006 isn't gonna play THe Sims 3, or much of anything modern, on anything approaching acceptable settings - especially not STO.

Dude if it won't boot the the motherboard isn't working, the cpu is not required for the initial boot just the motherboard and the bios.
And at 2gb of ram if he runs on low settings it could run sto just fine. Also if you notice one of my questions was in regard to him upgrading his pc.

[Veritas]

I edited my post, but come on man...

the cpu is not required for the initial boot just the motherboard and the bios.

the cpu is not required for the initial boot just the motherboard and the bios.

Kurt, I don't know how to say this nicely: You don't know nearly as much about computers as you think you do.

Try "booting" a computer that has no processor installed and see what happens (hint: it will be nothing. Impossible to process anything in order to send POST without anything to do the processing).

[Kurt Fraser]

I edited my post, but come on man...

the cpu is not required for the initial boot just the motherboard and the bios.

the cpu is not required for the initial boot just the motherboard and the bios.

Kurt, I don't know how to say this nicely: You don't know nearly as much about computers as you think you do.

Try "booting" a computer that has no processor installed and see what happens (hint: it will be nothing. Impossible to process anything in order to send POST without anything to do the processing).

Dude the whole point of the BIOS is it does a pre-test before the computer actually boots, if you knew as much as you appear to claim you do you would know that, it is the first thing you are taught about computer hardware. The boot sequence goes, BIOS, CPU, OS That is why if your CPU has an issue such as the cooling fan is not working correctly it will state that your computer cannot complete the start-up process.

I edited my post, but come on man...

the cpu is not required for the initial boot just the motherboard and the bios.

the cpu is not required for the initial boot just the motherboard and the bios.

Kurt, I don't know how to say this nicely: You don't know nearly as much about computers as you think you do.

Try "booting" a computer that has no processor installed and see what happens (hint: it will be nothing. Impossible to process anything in order to send POST without anything to do the processing).

btw in regards to your earlier posts all 2006 Motherboards had PCI-E slots. Source in my first block of year 1 we used motherboards from 2005/2006 to ensure we did not damage the newer and more expensive motherboards.

Kurt, he has no way to know that stuff if it won't boot. The motherboard beep codes don't mean the processor itself is dead, necessarily (in fact they probably don't mean that at all since the processor is required to function to produce a beep code). More likely something else has gone bad - RAM, HDD or power.

It doesn't matter, though. A stock system from 2006 much of anything modern on anything approaching acceptable settings - definitely not STO. The motherboard will be an old model that won't support modern CPUs (if, indeed, it supports anything other than what's already in it). It may not even be DDR3 RAM, and may not be expandable. It almost certainly won't have the space and power requirements for a modern GPU; hell, it's probably AGP or some other non-PCI-Express component.

Oh and btw if you actually read my post you will also see that I ask him to check the PSU's wattage to check to see what it would be able to handle, thus finding out if it would need replaced But thanks for the input.

Back onto the matter at hand Radio if you could kindly do that we can further progress your situation and inform you as to whether your desktop pc would need a major overhaul/replacement or whether it can simply be upgraded.

[Veritas]

Dude the whole point of the BIOS is it does a pre-test before the computer actually boots, if you knew as much as you appear to claim you do you would know that, it is the first thing you are taught about computer hardware. The boot sequence goes, BIOS, CPU, OS That is why if your CPU has an issue such as the cooling fan is not working correctly it will state that your computer cannot complete the start-up process.

You are completely wrong, and apparently so certain in your wrongness you won't bother to even check on it for yourself. I will not do your Googling for you, but feel free to search "boot without CPU" and see what happens. I won't argue with you further, but I would caution others in this thread not to take your advice, because I don't see it coming from any sort of actual knowledge. I won't appeal to my own authority (though I am computer science student and I do have knowledge of computer architecture), those reading this should definitely NOT do things like run multimeters through their RAM or try to boot without a CPU installed.

I will just say this, for others in this thread: BIOS is, essentially, a pared-down operating system used to "bootstrap" the rest of the system. It's stored on a ROM chip (read-only memory) on your motherboard. When you press the power button on the motherboard, your CPU looks to the BIOS for its first instructions, then starts loading all that stuff. Most BIOS will NOT stop the boot process for a bad fan; BIOS might know about the fans but won't be able to monitor that kind of "health" in them (only RPM and power consumption).

So the process goes like this, roughly:

1) Start button pressed
2) Power supply delivers power to motherboard, other components
3) CPU is powered up, reads BIOS to see first instructions
4) CPU loads initial instructions into RAM (memory)
5) CPU proceeds with execution according to BIOS instructions until told to look elsewhere
6) BIOS instructs the CPU on where further instructions (from the OS) are coming from
7) OS is loaded into memory; boot process continues with the OS "driving"

So, to start any system (even to the point of receiving a POST code!) you need the following:

1) Power supply
2) CPU (processor) with cooling
3) RAM (memory)

all installed in your motherboard and properly connected up. If you want to look at what your BIOS is doing visually, you will also need some kind of video out (HDMI, VGA, DVI, etc).

TL;DR: Don't take Kurt's advice. He doesn't know what he's talking about and refuses to bother to check his facts. Likely the only things worth salvaging from the 2006 system are the case and maybe the HDD, if it's of a decent size, but if you're serious about doing something new you should look into a totally new build.

Edit: Kurt, I have merged your quadruple (!!!!) post into one post. Use the edit button in the future.

[Kurt Fraser]

Actually I did check so you may wish to try that little google again or here allow me https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110824202446AAdDPe6 your welcome in future do not question my knowledge unless you can back it up, also I can tell you, that you are wrong about what can be salvaged I just rebuilt my Grandma's computer not three days ago, it was a pentium 4 processor chip 4.00GHz with a 750W PSU (Which did surprise me) I managed to rebuild replacing only the CPU, modifying the motherboard to take more RAM chips so that it could also take Kingston Hyper-X Beast 2400 MHz 16Gb (2*8 ), upgraded to a more modern GPU and replaced the Hard Drives as well as brought it more up-to-date by installing Windows 7 64-bit Professional. The computer incase your wondering was a Dell Inspiron from 2006. I also did a test without the CPU to see what version the BIOS was to make sure it didn't need to be upgraded pre-installation.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I also upgraded the Cooling System.
EDIT 2: Radio if you would be so kind as to answer those questions so we could proceed thanks

[Veritas]

A single Yahoo Answers post does not an authoritative argument make.

Try Wikipedia, OpenBookProject, Cardinal Stritch University, University of Arizona, or millions of others.

I will not address the other "points" in your post because I said I would stop arguing, but again, you are absolutely wrong and your certainty in wrongness is something you should think long and hard on.

Edit: Also, you made up your build specs. Here's how I know:

1) The graphics cards you claim to have haven't shipped yet (EVGA product page) and are made by EVGA, not Nvidia themselves
2) The CPU you list is not supported by the motherboard you claim to have.

So not only don't you know what you're talking about, you also lied to us in your build list.

[RadioActivitii]

Check out the Packard Bell iMedia range from 2006. Every system looks identical, with similar specs. It is impossible to find which system I have without booting into it. I'll remove stuff one by one and put it back to see what works and what doesn't. (Also, not planning on playing STO on that dinosaur haha, although it probably could run it)

Got a question though, if I replace the motherboard, will the old components work in it? I won't be able to afford everything, so I'll most likely start with PSU, CPU and Motherboard to start with. The system has a Nvidia card in it - which has rarely been used, which sounds insane at first, but its drivers were never installed, so my PC ran off integrated graphics. Oh my.

[Kurt Fraser]

A single Yahoo Answers post does not an authoritative argument make.

Try Wikipedia, OpenBookProject, Cardinal Stritch University, University of Arizona, or millions of others.

I will not address the other "points" in your post because I said I would stop arguing, but again, you are absolutely wrong and your certainty in wrongness is something you should think long and hard on.

Why don't you try the fact that I have done 3 days ago.... I believe that the problem is on your side Veritas. But if you would like I could always check with someone who has a Masters in Computer Engineering. Oh guess what, he said almost exactly what is in that Yahoo answer which is with modern Motherboards they have to be forced into thinking the fan is running but with most older models of motherboard they will do that anyway as they always boot from BIOS. Try taking your BIOS chip out and doing a boot I think you will find it does nothing, then try it with no CPU I think it will say it cannot complete boot sequence due to a CPU error.

[Kurt Fraser]

Check out the Packard Bell iMedia range from 2006. Every system looks identical, with similar specs. It is impossible to find which system I have without booting into it. I'll remove stuff one by one and put it back to see what works and what doesn't. (Also, not planning on playing STO on that dinosaur haha, although it probably could run it)

Got a question though, if I replace the motherboard, will the old components work in it? I won't be able to afford everything, so I'll most likely start with PSU, CPU and Motherboard to start with. The system has a Nvidia card in it - which has rarely been used, which sounds insane at first, but its drivers were never installed, so my PC ran off integrated graphics. Oh my.

Possibly providing they were all PCI-E's as the motherboard you had then wouldn't just have had PCI-E port's so double check that.

[Veritas]

You can't "take out" a BIOS chip. It's usually soldered to the motherboard.

Also, your build specs are totally made up. Take a look at my edited post above.

Got a question though, if I replace the motherboard, will the old components work in it? I won't be able to afford everything, so I'll most likely start with PSU, CPU and Motherboard to start with. The system has a Nvidia card in it - which has rarely been used, which sounds insane at first, but its drivers were never installed, so my PC ran off integrated graphics. Oh my.

Some will, some will not. The graphics card may, depending whether it's a PCI-Express card or not (if you can tell us what model it is, or post a picture, I can tell you). The RAM may, if it's DDR3, but it might not be and 2GB is definitely not enough (you probably need 4GB minimum, preferably 8GB). The HDD likely will work, maybe with an IDE to SATA adapter. Optical drives and the like should definitely work.

[Kurt Fraser]

A single Yahoo Answers post does not an authoritative argument make.

Try Wikipedia, OpenBookProject, Cardinal Stritch University, University of Arizona, or millions of others.

I will not address the other "points" in your post because I said I would stop arguing, but again, you are absolutely wrong and your certainty in wrongness is something you should think long and hard on.

Edit: Also, you made up your build specs. Here's how I know:

1) The graphics cards you claim to have haven't shipped yet (EVGA product page) and are made by EVGA, not Nvidia themselves
2) The CPU you list is not supported by the motherboard you claim to have.

So not only don't you know what you're talking about, you also lied to us in your build list.

I would check that mate as I know what is in my computer, you may wish to check your sources it has most definitely been shipped as for motherboard incompatibility how do you explain the fact my computer is on then... and have you never heard of de-soldering...

Kurt, he has no way to know that stuff if it won't boot. The motherboard beep codes don't mean the processor itself is dead, necessarily (in fact they probably don't mean that at all since the processor is required to function to produce a beep code). More likely something else has gone bad - RAM, HDD or power.

It doesn't matter, though. A stock system from 2006 much of anything modern on anything approaching acceptable settings - definitely not STO. The motherboard will be an old model that won't support modern CPUs (if, indeed, it supports anything other than what's already in it). It may not even be DDR3 RAM, and may not be expandable. It almost certainly won't have the space and power requirements for a modern GPU; hell, it's probably AGP or some other non-PCI-Express component.

1. upgrade the PSU this is the 3rd time I have mentioned that I asked him about that, 2. If it doesn't boot the BIOS doesn't work which is normally because the Motherboard died either protecting the CPU or as well as the CPU 3. I believe the model of GPU you are referring to above is the Jetstream version which is the most up-to-date model due for release on the 27th of this month ( I know as I was pondering upgrading to them, but the price is an offput for the extra's it delivers) 4. Yes it may not be expandable that is why my first question was what is the motherboards serial number so I could get the exact specs. Before trying to act know-it-all read someone's post and two check your information.

[RadioActivitii]

Throwing this out there, the power supply is fine. It's shown no damage of damage for the past 7 years, why would it be the broken thing? (Plus, the system turns on, just, doesn't load. Or make the POST beep.)

[Kurt Fraser]

Throwing this out there, the power supply is fine. It's shown no damage of damage for the past 7 years, why would it be the broken thing? (Plus, the system turns on, just, doesn't load. Or make the POST beep.)

Does it state whether there is a component fault or not? (possibly the battery being low from lack of use?) what is the Wattage of the PSU? A photo uploaded to the likes of skydrive/dropbox or imgur could really help with this.

[Telex Ferra]

Sorry if I missed this information Radio but does the screen show anything at all?

@Kurt, I can see you are making double, triple, and quadruple posts in this thread. Please remember that the modify button is there should you decide you have more to say before somebody responds to you.

[criminula]

Does anyone know about the quality of AMD's R9 Gamer Series RAM (http://www.radeonmemory.com/gamer_series.php)? AMD claims it is optimised for usage with their higher-end CPUs. I'm trying to work out if said optimisations are worth it, or if I should stick to something like Corsair or Kingston. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that I was using a relatively high-end FX-Series CPU (Which currently I'm not, but am aiming to do so soon enough).